When Adrian Valdivia told me that Eric Turro Martínez had done an interview with Charles Ferrer about Cuban social dances, I dropped everything I was doing at that moment to watch it. As I write this short preface, I vividly recall where I was and what I was doing when I heard Turro say the things he said, in the way he said them. I remember thinking, “Finally, someone of prestige is saying these things!” It gave me immense joy to feel validated. To know that I wasn’t crazy for defending my culture. That there are “high ranking” people who also care about these things, and say the same things I say.

It was time that someone like Eric Turro Martínez said the things he said about what has happened—and is happening—to casino outside of Cuba.

And I had to make sure that his words, his ideas, reached more people, crossed language barriers. Because the opposite is what often happens: among Cubans we have these conversations, but people don’t find out because we don’t have them in public or we have them in Spanish, and most of the people who consume Cuban culture and dances tend to speak English. So right after I finished listening to the interview, I asked Charles Ferrer for permission to transcribe and translate it, precisely for this purpose: to disseminate the information, so that more people understand what is happening. To continue creating cultural awareness.

I did the best I could in translating the interview, both in terms of language and format. There are things that are better understood in conversation. When transcribing them to the page, they don’t seem to have the same coherence they had orally. So I took some liberties—not many—of changing a word or two or altering the order in which something was said; or putting something that was said at minute 40, at minute 20, because it referred to that part of the interview and made more sense there. Maybe I omitted something that was redundant, or made a sentence more concise. All of this was part of the editing process to bring it to this medium. What I didn’t do was speak for Eric Turro Martínez. Another thing I did was to comment on some parts that I wanted to be clearer, or that I personally disagreed with Turro (one person does not hold all the truth in their hand). So if you want to follow my comments, simply click on the little number when you see it hovering over the word.

Without further ado. Here’s the conversation between Charles Ferrer and Eric Turro Martínez, one of the greatest son dancers in the world.

(Click here for original video of the interview in Spanish)

CF: Welcome to Chatting with Charles. We’re talking about social dances. These are brief interventions from teachers, dancers, masters. Today we are talking with Eric Turro Martínez. Eric. Welcome.

ET: Thank you. A pleasure for me to be here, my brother.

CF: We are having different teachers, masters, dancers, and dance enthusiasts come through here to give their opinion on the state of casino dancing. Obviously, you needed to be here. Eric, for those who don’t know you, what do you do?

ET: Among the many things I’ve done in this artistic world, at the moment: I am choreographer, lead dancer, and presenter of The Bar at Buena Vista company. I have my own company: Dance Buena Vista. I present a show here in Australia, which is a tribute to Cuban social dance. And I have another show called “Buena Vista Eric Turro Martínez”, that belongs to this company, which is a show that I brought from Cuba in 2004, and every year I tour around the world with it.

CF: Are you a bailador or a bailarín?1

ET: I come from the people, from the streets, but with later academic training in both dance and artistic director of musical shows. I was director of the Anfiteatro de Guanabacoa, founder and director of the comparsa “La mazucamba de Guanabacoa” for ten years. Presenter for the Adolfo Guzmán company, of Noches Habaneras, Café Cantante, La Cecilia, Dos Gardenias for seven and a half years. In other words, I’ve done many things. My own company in the Piñeiro company, in the Sabor Caribeño company. I’ve done many things since 1989. I was artistic director of institutions within what was the Festival Wemilere de Raíces Africanas, founded in 1989, which is the second largest folk festival in Cuba. I’m a dancer from Guanabacoa, where it all began; casinero since ’79.

CF: A long curriculum that would take hours and hours to dissect. These are your credentials. Tell me exactly how many years you’ve been in the dance world.

ET: Since 1984. Almost 40 years.

CF: You have plenty of experience. First question… tell me exactly what social dances are.

ET: Cuban social dances begin with our danzón. The danzón, the danzonete2, the son, the Havana son (son habanero), the urban son (which comes from the music called guaracha3), the casino, the cha-cha-cha, the mambo (not so much anymore because it’s not a partner dance). Those are the most representative. Boleros also became incredibly popular in the late 40s and 50s. Others were short-lived, like the pilón, which come from genres that were ephemeral.

CF: Let’s put it this way: in 2024, how many social dances exist?

ET: I will never stop mentioning the danzón. But the son and the casino have been the strongest.

CF: So, the most predominant ones are son, casino, and danzón.

ET: Also cha-cha-cha. They’re the ones that the people have reproduced the most.4

CF: Give me your concept of social dance.

ET: Social dance for me is the dance where in the same venue, doctors, common people, everyone, can interact in a space responding to a sound that truly identifies the culture of a people.5

CF: Allow me to interrupt. I’m going to a party now where there are 500 people and reggaeton is being danced. Is that a social dance?

ET: No, not at all.

CF: What determines when it’s a social dance and when it’s not?

ET: Social dances that identify a country come from generation to generation, from genres that belong to a country. Reggaeton, or timbatón, or traptón – these things do not belong to Cuba.

CF: OK. I retract saying reggaeton. I go to a place with 500 people and we’re dancing rumba. Rumba (guaguancó), is that a social dance?

ET: No.

CF: What determines whether something is a “social dance”?

Social dance is a partner dance where people interact with physical contact, using their hands, in closed position, where you can see the elegance, the rhythm, what the interaction of all these things the sound of the music represents for the people.

CF: So, for it to be a social dance, does there have to be a requirement for face-to-face interaction, physical contact?

ET: There has to be guidance, and a response to it. The man leads the woman, with basic translation figures, what is called in the casino “la vuelta” (like a Vacílala)

CF: The second question: does the dance respond to the music or vice versa?

ET: Dancers respond to a sound. First the sound and then the movement. The latter develops in conjunction with the development of the music over time.

CF: In other word, there are codes and patterns to follow according to the genre.

ET: Absolutely.

CF: In Cuba, there are two dances that are the most popular: son and casino. In the case of son, specifically, what music does it respond to?

ET: To son montuno and the music of the septets, which came before the ensembles and charangas.6

CF: Son responds to son music. Casino, what music does it respond to?

ET: Casino responds to that second generation… the conjunto Roberto Faz, Ritmo Oriental, Los Van Van… these types of groups that came with a fresher and faster sound.

On the other hand, casino wasn’t taken up, as was done with the Conjunto Folclórico, to be learned in schools, as it should have been. That’s why it stayed on the streets, and people started learning from what they saw. When I started dancing casino, at twelve years old, we knew nothing about clave or harmony. We went with what we felt, with what was being called in the rueda, or with what we heard in the music. I started hearing the clave differently because of my grandfather, because I lived in a family of musicians. In Guanabacoa Park, for example, I would show off dancing casino, but if my grandfather saw me, he would say, “You’re all over the place.” And from there, I started hearing the clave in rehearsals while he played with his group, and he’d say the same thing. Then, taking classes with Aspirina, I started hearing the clave. So, my development is completely different because I was born in a neighborhood of rumberos and culture artists. I had a different view. And I always had that dilemma: at the park, I had to dance to what they called in the rueda, but when I got to my family, in rehearsals, they’d tell me I was all over the place.7

CF: Is casino at a higher level than son?

ET: Casino is like an evolution of son. Casino comes from son. For many people I’ve heard saying that casino was created in circles in Havana, that it came from rock and roll and cha-cha-cha. No. Casino, in its musical concept—which is guaracha and son, played with other patterns—comes from son.8

CF: If casino comes from son, if the Septeto Habanero is playing, can I dance casino?

ET: It depends on the knowledge and information this dancer has. Someone who knows how to dance son won’t dance casino. But someone who doesn’t know—a worker, driver, or taxi driver—will dance to the music as they feel it. They will dance to have fun.

CF: Yes. Here we’re getting more into the idea that dance is an individual expression that a person has when hearing a sound. But if we put a little more rigor into that, things change. Let’s say the Septeto Nacional is playing a son and Eric Turro decides to dance casino. Is that correct?

ET: No.

CF: In other words, you can’t dance casino to traditional son music. Now, NG la Banda is playing “Necesito una amiga”” can you dance son?

ET: On the offbeat, yes. The musical base is son. Unless they play as fast as Ritmo Oriental or Los Latinos. With those bands, you can’t dance son because the speed doesn’t allow it. But when they play a song with a different feel, you can dance a son.

CF: Is son danced on the offbeat?

ET: Yes. That’s where the tumbao, the flavor, the conga, the clave are. That’s where son is danced.9

CF: And casino?

ET: It’s danced on the beat, but someone who masters the offbeat can dance casino on the offbeat.

CF: Let’s say I want to teach casino to my students, and they haven’t mastered anything.

ET: Teach them to dance on the beat.

CF: Each dance has particular figures, movements, positions. Is there a difference between the positions of son and casino?

ET: Absolutely. Son is danced from the inside out. Son expands. Casino contracts. You step on the strong beats (1, 3, 5, 7). Remember that a clave cycle has two musical phrases. We have to use both because we have two legs. In son, you step strongly on the off beats (2, 4, 6, 8). And the figures and translation are more decisive. The lead is firmer. In casino, things are more relaxed. The couple has more freedom, and there are knots (nudos) and turns and all these things done within casino, which shouldn’t be done in son. First, because the music doesn’t give you the space, and second because complicated turns shouldn’t be done within son.

CF: Should there be a unification of the concepts from son and casino when it comes to dancing so that the way it is taught can be emulated? The way I see it, I see that each teacher has their own way of doing things.

ET: Life has forced us to find these ways. When someone approaches you to learn, you have to have a method. If I danced son but was a bus driver, I am not obligated to teach anyone nor do I need a method. But when a festival is created, many people have had to learn outside of Cuba to follow a method and look for patterns, because teaching requires a method. Every dance needs a methodology. I had to create my own methodology, based on the opportunity I had to live surrounded by all of these legendary people, listening and asking, investigating. Those of us who have truly dedicated ourselves to this and wanted to give a product with respect to our culture, we have had to sit down and create our own methodology. And now, thanks to certain venues that have been created, the information has proliferated thanks to social networks and festivals. And a level of teaching has been created that is uniform, and everyone has heard the information. Knowledge of music and how musical instruments are applied to social dance has been growing. And really today it is much better than before. But, Cuba should have an institution or include within the ENA (National School of Arts) a methodology, as was done with the Conjunto Folclórico, which sought people who were serious about the craft. Let the same thing happen with son and casino. Let these institutions say: “We want to do a seminal work, where each step and figure has a name, where the three basic positions are implemented, where we start dancing in closed position, where in the montuno is when the person is freer, where people do tornillo when there is a solo.” All these things, for son and casino, there should be a methodology that everyone has access to.

CF: If we put a methodology to casino or son, would it cease to be popular?

ET: On the contrary. What’s there, is there. Look, I have students who come to enjoy the class. But there are always four or five who are not Cuban. They come with dressed up in suits and they come and dance and do the choreographies. And I have instructors who teach it correctly because they have spent years with me and they respect it. You ask them about Arsenio Rodríguez and they’ll tell you his date of birth. It all depends on what you instill in the people around you.

CF: One last concept I want you to clarify for me. What does “linear salsa” [salsa on 1, on 2] mean to you?

ET: As it happened in music, I do the same with linear salsa. That was born there [in the US] and I leave it there. What interests me is Cuban dance.

CF: Can concepts of linear salsa be used to dance a son?

ET: Absolutely not. It would be disrespectful.10

CF: If a teacher in an academy, who is obviously representing the culture, tells you that you can dance a son using techniques of linear salsa, is that correct?

ET: No. They would be lying first and would be deceiving those people who come in search of knowledge.

CF: What music does linear salsa respond to?

ET: From what I’ve been able to find out, that comes from other dance styles in the US like ballroom. Non-Cuban dancers did a fusion, drew their own conclusions and that’s how linear salsa came about. When it comes to fusions, these non-Cuban dancers have been learning from Cuban dancers and musicians once they leave Cuba. When I left, there were no spaces for Cuban dances. They invited me to salsa congresses and when they saw me, people said, “the old-people dance.” But really, it’s incorrect.11

CF: What technical elements does linear salsa have?

ET: It has acrobatic elements like they do in swing and rock and roll, but it really has nothing to do with our social dances.

CF: Let’s move on to another issue, which has also become controversial. Dances have their own concepts and turn patterns that identify them. The term “fusion” is used a lot. We have seen many teachers who dance son or casino and in the middle of that they do a rumba or folkloric step. Is that correct?

ET: There you have two answers. Without rumba, there is no son. In casino, there are figures where you break with the partner, for example, the Vacílala. While the woman makes her turn, you can do some rumba before picking her up. And that works well. But a step for Changó or Yemayá, that has nothing to do with it. I, as a sonero, always do son.12

CF: I have seen many teachers who do folkloric steps within the casino and the son. Is that incorrect?

ET: It’s incorrect. Everyone can do what they want, but if we’re going to talk about having a pedagogical base, it’s absolutely incorrect.

CF: Of course. Everyone does do as they please. But I think there have to be certain codes and patterns to follow when you’re going to practice a discipline, like dancing. Some people reach certain levels and others do it for leisure. But they have to adhere to patterns. Because otherwise, I could do breakdancing with son song and say, “I’m dancing and that has to be respected.” Then everything would be meaningless. Now, do you know folkloric dances?

ET: I was in the Conjunto Folclórico, but I never did the Yoruba part. I did the social part.

CF: OK. Answer this if you know, then. Changó has a dance. If in the Changó dance, I do cha-cha-cha and mambo steps. Is that okay?

ET: You can’t do it because the drum doesn’t allow it. And even if the drum did allow it, it wouldn’t be okay for me. As a religious person, I wouldn’t allow it.

CF: And in casino, can I do it because the music allows it?

ET: No. There’s a mistake here. Even if the lyrics of the song talk about Yemayá… if a batá drum is not playing, why do you have to do the Yemayá steps, If what’s playing is a guaracha?

CF: OK. Let’s say a song has six measures of rumba, or seven measures of merengue.

ET: Now we’re talking about something different. For example, Alexander Abreu records ten songs, that doesn’t mean that all the songs are for dancers. And that’s where we have to be careful, both the DJ and the teachers, who are the ones responsible for educating people.

CF: In songs where there are changes from son to guaguancó, what does the dancer do?

ET: If I know the song will return to son, I can either skip the rumba section with a figure, or I can do it if I know basic rumba steps. But if it’s Orisha, I’m not going to do anything.

CF: The song has a structure, but it can have a guaguancó section, where everything changes because there’s a transition. I don’t have problems with those musical transitions. What I want to know is, how does the dancer solve those rhythmic transitions?

ET: They can solve it by dancing freely, breaking apart from each other. Because if you’re not dancing guaguancó, what are you going to do? You can keep stepping. Use the “wait position,” which is what we call “aguajea” or “balsea.” And let those measures pass. But you don’t have to tell the students, “I’m going to teach you casino, but to dance these ten songs, you have to learn to dance guaguancó.” Because it doesn’t make sense. It stops being casino. In one song, you have a piece of guaguancó, in another a piece of Eleguá. You have to go to the National School of Arts, then to the Conjunto Folclorico, and then learn casino. It doesn’t make sense.13

CF: So, according to what you’re telling me, casino doesn’t allow for a fusion of movements from other genres.

ET: There has been a transformation in the music that forces the dancer to enrich it with some movements to be able to do many songs that Alain Pérez or Alexander Abreu do today, which have many gear changes and other things happening within the song. Now, that has to be considered. But I try to stay, at least 95%, within the parameters of casino. That’s my opinion. I am a defender of these things. But this idea that everyone has to be ready to do everything, doesn’t seem right to me.

CF: Tell me, qualitatively speaking, how do you see the pedagogy of casino worldwide? Because if one thing has to be recognized, it’s that now the casino is known internationally a lot.

ET: That’s a good point. There has been a long battle with that within ourselves. Festivals have greatly helped with this. Many thanks to the DJs who have spread this music all over the world. To the teachers, too. Thanks to social media, learning has been occurring and creating a balanced level where casino has grown a lot.

CF: Let’s say you’re a doctor. If you have to determine the health of casino as is danced worldwide and taught in schools…

ET: It needs a strong injection, a blood transfusion of reality and focus from the people who are teaching it.

CF: Would the diagnosis be that it’s in “critical condition”?

ET: No, it’s not serious. But we do need a strong transfusion, an awareness-raising, and some pills for the headaches created by the many schools that, first of all, teach it incorrectly. They call it “Cuban salsa.” This is a business problem, just like with music. You have to call it “salsa” to attract people, and I understand that part. I might have 20 students because I simply don’t change the names. My school is for Cuban social dances, and the classes I have at the moment are casino and cha-cha-cha. And I remain closed like a lock because I am from the old school.14

CF: Before moving on, what is the difference between a bailador and a bailarín?

ET: The bailarín is a dancer who comes from an academic background. How a folkloric dancer expresses themselves is not the same as how a contemporary dancer does. To become a teacher, these dancers spend 10-15 years as dancers, retire, and then dedicate themselves to teaching. But when it comes to teaching, what you were professionally is in your blood: it’s 90% of the style, physical form, the way of interpreting music, and even walking—all related to what they studied. I am a bailador (a social dancer) and I say this with both pride and a lot of respect for the bailarines.

CF: I want to refer to a very media-friendly figure, which is the case of Maykel Fonts. Is he a bailador or a bailarín?

ET: We’re friends. What I know about him is that he was a young man who went through the Tropicana school and had to excel. He has reached a stratospheric level, and I have a lot of respect for his work. He is a bailarín, who has many traits of a bailador. He has created his own style.

CF: His style of dancing casino and linear salsa… is that his style or are these performances?

ET: Look, what I’ve seen from Maykel is that he’s an artist. What he has done are performances, on television, in Dancing with the Stars [the Italian version], dancing at other events. He started out dancing at salsa events.

CF: Would you recommend a student to learn based on a performance or a methodology?

ET: I would recommend, for learning to dance like casino and son, a methodology. For me, that’s the foundation.

CF: Regardless of whether Maykel Fonts is a phenomenon, it seems like within a single song, he incorporates ten thousand folkloric and abakuá steps. You mentioned he works more within the realm of performance, but I see him showcasing that in schools, too. Is that wrong to do?

ET: From my perspective, and with all due respect, I wouldn’t do it—to give a response that won’t offend anyone. If I’m going to teach son, I base it on son.

CF: But would it be wrong?

ET: Well, if we’re talking about mixing casino with steps from NY and LA salsa, I don’t like doing that. It might look nice because you can put in a performance whatever you want. Dancing for an audience and a show on stage is different. But for social dancing? Social dance has codes, even metrics for footsteps, principles for guiding the woman. You can’t just go and do a lift with a woman.

CF: Let’s say I’m watching a Maykel Fonts video with a friend of and she says, “That guy dances some serious casino.” Can I say...?

ET: Well, it’s not casino. He’s dancing socially, but it’s not casino. He’s enjoying the dance. What’s happening with the current trend outside of Cuba with casino is what happened in Cuba with those who learned from the old masters. Because you learn from what you see. In Cuba, there weren’t schools before. Now the world is full of schools. Wherever you go, there are a hundred schools. And it has become a way of life. So, you need a lot of information to go every week, every day, to give new information to people about a dance you have no knowledge of. That’s why I recommend to all teachers worldwide: get close to those who have knowledge of son, seek more resources on son, learn the structure and basic figures of son and casino. Do the steps as they should be. Introduce musicality into the classes. Because when you start making things up, it’s because you ran out of resources.

CF: Is the essence of casino being lost?

ET: Outside of Cuba, it’s being lost a lot because it’s now becoming a fusion of all these styles. People step really big, and flat on the floor. They throw the woman around. It’s madness. It’s a big fusion, especially in Europe (in Italy), which I see a lot from the videos. But for example, Carlos Rafael González Justo, in France, when he dances son, he dances son. And he has one of the biggest schools in Europe. Mario Charón too. Yoannis Tamayo, a tremendous rumbero, dances everything, but when he dances son, he dances son.15

I think Cubans have a responsibility to raise awareness, to transmit that message, to set boundaries within the dances. How elegant it looks when you dance a well-danced casino with your partner where the woman doesn’t lose her earrings, doesn’t have to worry about her bracelet being knocked off, about breaking a nail, or getting hit in the face with an elbow because the man is trying to do a complicated move. So, I think with all the codes that casino has: the metric, the guidance, the response, the frame of the arms, the distance between the man and the woman. With all that, there’s no need to make things up.

CF: Many people might see us as closed-minded and not in favor of progress. Do you know tango?

ET: Yes. One of the schools where I teach here is a tango school. And you’ll never see them mixing anything. You’ll never see a tango dancer making things up.

CF: Tango is a century-old dance and still retains its pure essence.

ET: The tango dancers here, you enter the milongas and everyone is in a suit. You don’t see anyone sweating, jumping around, or trying to invent anything. If my son students go to a social, they’re not going to do a tornillo almost flat on the floor. They’re going to dance son as it’s danced socially. The tip of the shoe doesn’t pass the heel because you might step on the woman behind you. Social dance has metrics to avoid creating situations and not disturbing those around you. The man doesn’t stand directly facing the woman; he stands offset so as not to step on her. There are many concepts and information that lead you to do a Saloneo. Those who dance Cuban salsa can’t do Saloneo because they step flat and big, limiting them to stepping forwards and backwards and doing rumba and other things. Because when you get into the closed position, the woman always ends up facing you. That’s why in casino, you’re never facing the woman, only in the closed position. In son, too. So, all these flaws that we’re starting to have from the basics are what deform the dance.

CF: Are these transformations a transformation of the dance or a deformation?

ET: It’s a deformation. I’d say a devolution, but they look good because those who do them are artists. Because most are dancers and have tremendous knowledge and creativity. But if you don’t have the right principles, what you’ll do is pile on the error. Then one error leads to another. That’s total deformation.

CF: How do you see casino in Cuba?

ET: Casino in Cuba has grown a lot. I send greetings to Luna, from the All Stars. What I’ve seen in Santiago de Cuba, Pinar del Río… casino is being danced a lot, and casino events are being organized.16 I think we need to give a base injection to those who already dance good, fluid casino, who have the flavor of Cuba.

CF: Could Cuba be exposed to foreign “contamination” and what is being sold outside of Cuba?

ET: Today in Cuba, I’m aware that tango or Colombian salsa is taught in places that emblematically represent Cuban son. So, we have to be very careful when thinking that what comes from outside is what it is, and that the last step I saw in the video is what it is.17

I think we have to respect the roots more, and I also think that the conservation work being done with social dances has been mainly historical, not methodological. There’s no methodology. I only know of one person [Yoel Marrero], who is not my friend today, who has a method and is respected for that. Carlos Rafael over there in France has a method. My method is called “The Language of Hands,” especially dedicated to son, and you see it in all my videos and my students. The work is there. I have a YouTube channel. I have 15 tutorial videos where I dance with Chantal and explain all the steps and figures. My videos are all public.

CF: Shouldn’t all these methods converge at some point?

ET: Look, I’m going to Cuba—I haven’t been in eight years— with one of my great friends, Idalberto Alcalá, who is one of the greatest rumberos in Cuba. And I’ll take my methodology to important institutions there. Because what’s been done with casino is only the history and who invented it. But there’s no method. All the words you hear are street slang. There’s no basic, logical method that says: translation, weight transfer, weight control, spin. There are no technical names. It’s just: “aguajea,” “sácala,” “ahórcala,” all those things that are street terms. Which is fine, but they should have conceptual names that are understood. When you talk in those terms, people understand. Humans have three forms of translation: running, jumping, and walking. When walking, which is what we do in casino, we step with the heel first and then the toe. We don’t step flatly.

If everyone knows that the danzón is danced in a closed position, that son has three basic positions, and that casino uses these three positions at different times and guides, and that the open position within son is completely different from that of casino. And that translation in casino is forwards to create, to enrich—and not stepping backward. If they understand that you don’t push the woman backward first to take a step forward afterward—she’ll never advance. If they realize that in casino what the man does with the woman is change positions, not make her spin. If they learn that the man can guide the woman with both hands from the closed to open position without taking a step himself. Because guiding and steps are family. You have to give the guiding command first and then take the step. And that’s one of the first things being eliminated in all Cuban salsa schools. There, the count of 1, 2, 3-5, 6, 7 killed us because two musical beats are missing, which is when the man lifts his leg and when he guides the woman. A methodology fixes all this.

CF: Eric, I really appreciate you being here.

ET: One thing before I go. What’s happened to us is that we’ve entered into a Byzantine war, into a “I-know-more-than-you-and-have-my-little-book” mentality. And no. If you’re going to the club to dance and pay the entrance fee… do whatever you want. But when you’re a teacher, you have to be careful. Because you’re using Cuban culture. You’re charging people money, people who get in a car every day and leave their things behind, believing in something, and then when they go to a festival or another school, they realize it was all smoke and mirrors. Teach well. Because what that does is proliferate culture. The idea is to multiply. And instead of getting angry about what Eric Turro said, call me. “Hey teacher, I liked what you did in that video. What’s that called?” To teach in a class, you have to seek truth and logic. You might not arrive at an exact answer, but at least it takes you down a better path.

Notes

  1. I have opted for leaving the Spanish original here. Eric Turro will talk about the differences later in the conversation. For now: a bailarín is a professional dancer, and a bailador is someone who dances for fun. ↩︎
  2. Musically speaking, the danzonete refers to a subgenre of the danzón where there is a vocal section that sets it apart from the pure danzón, which is completely instrumental. The vocal section of this danzonete, “Rompiendo la rutina,” begins at minute 2:50. The danzonete is rarely dance anywhere in Cuba. Here is an example of what it can look like. (Thanks, David Allen, for the tip!) ↩︎
  3. Guarachas were mostly used in the theater in the 19th century. When Cuban musicians say “guaracha”, they are not referring to what guaracha originally meant, but rather to the playing son that has a rapid tempo. This is known as guaracha-son. Celia Cruz, internationally known as “The Queen of Salsa”, was nationally known as “La Guarachera de Cuba”. More about guaracha here. ↩︎
  4. It is not very common to see the chachachá danced socially in Cuba. I believe ET mentions the chachachá because it is part of what he teaches. But statistically speaking, social chachachá is almost not danced in Cuba. It is danced as choreography or using its basic steps, but socially, it is rare to see, although not impossible. ↩︎
  5. ET’s definition seems to place culture as a determining factor. That is, if it is not part of a culture, it is not a social dance. Personally, I follow a less rigid definition: a social dance is any dance where there is an intention to socialize. Within this conception, casino is a social dance, yes. But so is dancing reggaetón and even rumba columbia, which, although it is an individual dance, is done within a broader social context, as in this example. The Electric Slide is also a social dance under this definition. As with anything, it all depends on the definition you give it. ↩︎
  6. Here, ET is not completely correct. Arsenio Rodríguez is the creator of both the son montuno and the conjunto format, at least that’s what the literature on the topic says. Therefore, if the son is danced with the son montuno, it is danced with the music of the conjunto format. The casino is a phenomenon from the 1950s. The conjuntos were created in the 1940s. Son was danced with the conjuntos for a long time before the casino arrived. ↩︎
  7. ET here is referring to the phenomenon of being cruzado (crossed). The clave pattern spans two measures of four counts each. Pah-pah-pah (one measure), pah-pah (one measure) The tumbao of the piano (the melody) can start on the 3-side, or on the 2-side. Being cruzado refers to starting your 1-count, as a dancer, on the side opposite of where the melody begins. So, if the piano starts of the 3 side of the clave, but your one is on the 2-side of the clave, you are cruzado. For more on clave, click here. ↩︎
  8. The matrix of casino is son. Indeed, the casino is danced to son music (Adalberto Álvarez y su son, Pupy y los que son son). But it does have elements from other dances. For example, what is known as Pa’ti, pa’mí (the wrongly named “Guapea”) comes from the open position of the chachachá, which the son does not have. On the other hand, son does not have Enchufla. Neither does chachachá, nor danzón. That came from rock and roll and American influences in Cuba in the 1950s, as far as I can tell. ↩︎
  9. I completely agree with ET that son should be danced on the offbeat. The music emphasizes this. That said, if son is danced on a different beat, it doesn’t stop being son. The beat on which you dance does not make a dance, as I’ve explained here. (And yes, I will die on this hill.) ↩︎
  10. This easily applies to videos like this one, where what is happening is presicely the fusion of son with concepts of linear salsa–and in Cuba, of all places! ↩︎
  11. ET here does not really answer the question about the music. To answer the question: salsa on 1 and on 2 is danced to son music–son music produced outside of Cuba by non-Cuban musicians who often added their idiosincracies, but son music nonetheless. To read more about what salsa music is, click here. To the topic to which he does speak (the dance), I did an extensive work contextualizing the history of linear salsa within the United States. ET knows little about this, so his take is very reductive. To read more about the history of salsa on 1 and on 2, here is the first part. And here is the second. ↩︎
  12. Casino allows small touches of things as long as they do not affect the couple’s dance. For example, in the “Para bailar casino” competition in 2004, there was a person who did the moonwalk, popularized by Michael Jackson (second 0:35 of this video). But he did it within as he was walking around with his partner, which made sense. Many columbieros also contribute with their idiosyncrasies, by doing casino figures but sprinkling on columbia steps here and there. However, these things are personal idiosyncrasies that should not be taken as representative of how casino is commonly danced. ↩︎
  13. In other words, let’s stop pretending that the majority of songs have explicit sections of other genres. The vast majority do not. Let’s not take the one song in the album that combines rumba and son and make this the standard for the whole album. At the end of the day, the problem lies in that many instructors teach to fuse dances without any nuance, and then they use that “one song” that does fuse genres as the norm for all songs, when it is not. ↩︎
  14. For a similar take on how to do this, read this interview with Adrian Valdivia, artistic director of DC Casineros. ↩︎
  15. Ironically, Yoannis mixes things a lot when he dances casino, something he did not do in Cuba. As a point of curiosity for me, I always wonder why these fusions happen more in casino than in son. I think it has to do with the respect given to the son as a dance, by Cubans themselves. I have never seen a son class called “Cuban salsa” to attract more people (although the word “son” means something else in English, just like “casino”). The respect with which the son is treated outside of Cuba is a good example of the real power that Cubans have to establish their own guidelines regarding the representation of their dances. ↩︎
  16. On May 5th, for instance, Cuba broke the record for world’s largest rueda. Video here. ↩︎
  17. There are also many places in Havana, like “La Casona del Son”, which is owned by a Spaniard, who teach ready-made Cuban dance classes for tourists. What they teach there is heavily influenced by what the tourists expect and want, and not by how Cubans actually dance. ↩︎